In this conversation with Joe Rogan, NVIDIA founder and CEO Jensen Huang discusses the present and future of AI technology and NVIDIA's dramatic growth story in depth. Huang candidly shares his views on the importance of energy policy, the AI safety debate, and the moments when his company came to the brink of bankruptcy, revealing the intense philosophy behind his success. His journey from a poor immigrant child to the CEO of the world's most valuable company -- and his attitude of treating "suffering" as an essential ingredient of growth -- resonates powerfully.

1. The Trump Anecdote and the Importance of Energy

The conversation begins with an interesting episode involving Jensen Huang and President Donald Trump. Huang evaluated Trump as surprisingly good at listening to people and taking a very pragmatic approach to reviving American manufacturing. He recounted how, early in the Trump administration, Commerce Secretary nominee Howard Lutnick conveyed that NVIDIA was being treated as a "national treasure."

Lutnick opened the conversation like this: "Jensen, you and NVIDIA are a national treasure. If you ever need anything from the President or the administration, just reach out. We are always open to you." That was literally his opening line. And it was completely true. Whenever I shared a concern or needed help, they always took my call.

Huang emphasizes that energy growth is essential for the advancement of the AI industry. The massive power needed to run AI data centers and chip factories requires regulatory reform and expanded energy production as prerequisites.

Honestly, without a growth-oriented energy policy, we could not have built AI factories, chip factories, or supercomputer factories. All those construction jobs and electrician jobs would not be thriving the way they are now. I think he (Trump) is right. We need energy growth.

2. AI Safety and the Future of Jobs

Many people fear the pace of AI advancement, worrying about a bleak future straight out of The Terminator. But Jensen Huang holds a very optimistic view. He explains that just as cars have gained more powerful engines alongside stronger safety features like brakes and ABS, as AI's computing power increases, that power is channeled into improving safety and accuracy.

People hear "power" and think of explosive force, but in technology, most power goes toward safety. Today's cars are far more powerful than those of the past but far safer. If we increase AI performance by 1,000x, most of that power will go toward making AI think more deeply, research more thoroughly, and answer more carefully.

Regarding concerns that AI will steal human jobs, Huang points to how past predictions proved wrong. Five years ago, AI was predicted to replace radiologists, but today even more specialists are needed. AI increased productivity, enabling hospitals to see more patients, which improved economic efficiency and ultimately led to more hiring.

Professor Geoffrey Hinton predicted that radiologists would be unnecessary within five years. But the number of specialists actually grew. Because the purpose of a doctor is not to look at X-ray images but to diagnose diseases. Thanks to AI, they can analyze more images faster and more accurately, which improved hospital economics and led to hiring more doctors.

3. The Start of the AI Revolution: Delivering the First Supercomputer to Elon Musk

Huang tells the fascinating backstory that the modern AI revolution -- the explosive growth of deep learning -- actually originated from graphics cards made for video games. In 2012, Canadian researchers connected two NVIDIA gaming GPUs (GTX 580) and achieved a dominant victory in an image recognition competition. Huang seized the moment and decided to pour all of the company's resources into AI computing.

Then in 2016, NVIDIA completed the world's first AI supercomputer, the DGX-1. It cost $300,000 at the time, with development costs running into the billions, but nobody wanted to buy it -- except for one person: Elon Musk.

When I announced that machine (DGX-1), the audience was dead silent. Nobody understood what I was talking about. Purchase orders: zero. Then Elon said, "Hey, I have a company that really needs one of those." I said, "Wow, our first customer!" and he said, "Yeah, it's a nonprofit AI company." The blood drained from my face. (Laughter)

Huang personally loaded the supercomputer into a car and delivered it to the small office Musk had invested in -- which turned out to be OpenAI.

I drove to San Francisco myself and delivered it to Elon. I went up to the second floor and there were people gathered in a room smaller than this one. That was OpenAI in 2016. I can still picture Elon's face lighting up when he saw that machine. That was the Big Bang of modern AI.

4. The $5 Million That Saved NVIDIA and Sega's Grace

NVIDIA is the world's most valuable company today, but in the mid-1990s it came within a hair's breadth of bankruptcy. In its early days, NVIDIA signed a contract with Japanese game company Sega to develop chips for a gaming console. But during development, NVIDIA realized their technical approach (quadrilateral polygons, among other things) was wrong and that Microsoft and the mainstream market had adopted a different approach (triangle polygons).

Continuing development would clearly produce a failed product, but halting it would bankrupt the company. Jensen Huang, a 33-year-old CEO at the time, went to Sega CEO Shoichiro Irimajiri and made a shocking confession:

I told him: "I have bad news. The technology we promised is not going to work. You should end the contract. I don't want to waste your money. Find another partner." And then I added: "But even if you cancel the contract, we still need the money you promised us. Without it, we'll go bankrupt immediately."

By any rational standard, this was an absurd request. But remarkably, Sega's CEO believed in Huang's honesty and potential and invested $5 million.

He thought about it for a few days and then said, "Let's do it." Without that $5 million, NVIDIA would not exist today. He is a legendary figure still respected in Japan. When we went public, Sega sold their stake for roughly $300 million (at the time), so it turned out to be a great investment.

With that funding, NVIDIA threw everything into developing a new chip (RIVA 128), gambling by skipping prototype testing and going straight to mass production due to lack of funds -- and miraculously succeeded.

5. The Secret to Success: Endless Anxiety and Suffering

When Joe Rogan asked how he endured the enormous stress, Huang gave a surprising answer. He confessed that even now, he wakes up every morning with the anxiety that "the company might fail."

My fear of failure is greater than my desire to succeed. Every morning when I wake up and every night before I sleep, I think "the company could go under in 30 days." Even now, as the CEO of the world's most valuable company, that anxiety and vulnerability have not gone away.

Huang says this anxiety keeps him from becoming complacent and drives him to constantly dig into the fundamentals (first principles). He also emphasizes the importance of the "suffering" hidden behind the "passion" that successful people commonly reference.

People assume successful leaders always feel joy in their work. Of course there is joy. But most of success comes from really, really hard labor, suffering, loneliness, uncertainty, and humiliation. I think it's healthy for us to be honest about this. Suffering is part of the journey. It is because you endured the suffering that you can be more deeply grateful when success comes.

6. Conclusion: An Immigrant Boy's American Dream

Near the end of the interview, Huang recalls his childhood. As a nine-year-old boy, he traveled from Thailand to a boarding school in a rural town in Kentucky (Oneida), where every one of his classmates smoked and carried a knife. He adapted by cleaning the bathroom used by 100 students every day.

I was the youngest kid in the school, nine years old. I cleaned the dormitory bathroom used by 100 people every day. My parents and I exchanged letters by recording our voices on cassette tapes once a month. I remember recording for my parents: "This place is amazing! I went to a restaurant called McDonald's and the food comes out of a box!"

Having started from the bottom as an immigrant and built the world's greatest technology company, he closes the interview by saying his life is the American Dream itself.

You can succeed without a great education, without an Ivy League degree. This country gives you opportunities. Of course, you have to work incredibly hard, you need some luck, and you need other people's help. But if you put in the work, you can succeed. I am truly proud of my life, and I am deeply grateful to this country.